Suspension KnC parameters Error: Not changing Monotonously

anuj · 19 November 2021 13:21

I’ve tried modeling

the suspension in Kinematics, but get this error of Suspension KnC parameters not changing monotonously. Any solution?

alejandro.moreno · 23 November 2021 11:50

The error ‘xxx is not de/increasing monotonously’ has to do with CarMaker not been able to interpret correctly the data that is getting from the SKC file. In this case it is a problem with the wheel compression, the spring length, damper length, buffer length, and stabilizer length, which correspond to the columns tz, lSpring, lDamp, lBuf, and lStabi in the SKC file (see image).

grafik

The format of the error is:
xxx is not de/increasing monotonously [Data (Arg0, Arg1) … Data (Arg0, Arg1)],

For example:
Compression tz in not increasing monotonously [0 (1,7) … -0.0370904 (2,7)],

The 0 is the value found at row (1,7), column tz, while -0.0370904 is the value found at row (2,7), column tz in the SKC file. This error is thrown because the value is not increasing and it is either decreasing or is constant. For a double wishbone suspension SKC file generated with IPGKinematics, the Arg0 corresponds to q0(wheel compression), while Arg1 corresponds to q2(steering wheel position). The vales at (0,7) and (1,7) are likely the ones that correspond to maximum wheel extension with zero steering wheel angle.

The troubleshoot the problem one should start by taking a look at the data in the SKC file. The SKC file is a mapping of the suspension kinematics. If possible one should plot the data (tx, ty, … lStabi) with respect to wheel compression (Arg0) and make sure that the graphs are smooth and continuous. In general one should avoid data that has sections that are completely vertical (derivative approaches infinity) or completely flat (derivative approaches zero).

I will suspect that the root cause has to do with the geometry data inputted in IPGKInematics. Two common causes are the suspension bottoming out or maxed out (invalid compression range) or the use of ‘Forces on’ option with invalid parameters (such as misaligned bushings).

Could you please share your .skc or .kin file? Or could you plot the data found on the SKC?

anuj · 23 November 2021 12:11

Thanks for your help!!

I noticed that the kinematic varied almost randomly in wheel travel. Going back to the input data, I noticed an incorrect hardpoint. With correction, the model is running.

Ruben · 16 March 2022 16:02

I have double checked my hardpoints however, I am still having a very similar issue. In the kin file I have selected none for the stabilisation bar, but I still get the error.

alejandro.moreno · 17 March 2022 09:40

Would it be possible for you to share your .kin and .skc files? Or could you plot the data found on the SKC?

The error seems to be similar to last time: “I will suspect that the root cause has to do with the geometry data inputted in IPGKinematics. Two common causes are the suspension bottoming out or maxed out (invalid compression range) or the use of ‘Forces on’ option with invalid parameters (such as misaligned bushings).”

If I remember correctly, when ‘None’ is selected for the stabilizer bar then it gets its values directly from tz. That is why you see the same error repeated for tz as with the stabilizer deflection.

alejandro.moreno · 17 March 2022 15:04

There is no much information that I can obtain from this skc file picture. It appears that the .kin file has been parametrize incorrectly and IPGKinematics was unable to calculate any values.

Take a look at the guide Forces_Off_Kinematics.pdf. We have written this instruction specifically for students. As the tittle suggest, try to use ‘Forces Off’ for your simulation and see if that makes it work.

Forces Off Kinematics.pdf (798.8 KB)

Ruben · 18 March 2022 10:13

Have tried using ‘Forces Off’ however I am getting the same issue, not sure what exactly is going wrong. The forum website wont allow me to upload files however I have tried to copy as much of the contents of the skc file as the website will allow below. Help is appreciated.

#INFOFILE1 - Do not remove this line!
FileIdent = CarMaker-SuspKnC-* 1
FileCreator = IPGKinematics 18.03.2022 09:51/

Description:
**********************************************************
Suspension Kinematics and Compliance (SKC)
----------------------------------------------------------
IPGKinematics Version 3.6.11
Suspension Model Querlenker
Input Data ruben_querlenker_rear2.kin
Output Data ruben_querlenker_rear2_rear.skc
----------------------------------------------------------
Copyright (c) 1993-2021 by IPG Automotive GmbH
Bannwaldallee 60; D-76185 Karlsruhe; Phone +49.721.98520-0
**********************************************************

SuspR.Kin.N = 1
SuspR.Kin.0.Kind = MapNL
SuspR.Kin.0.ValidSide = left+right
SuspR.Kin.0.InputSide = left+right

SuspR.Kin.0.L.Arg = comp comp

SuspR.Kin.0.L.Arg0 = -.400E-01 -.350E-01 -.300E-01 -.250E-01 -.200E-01 -.150E-01 -.100E-01 -.500E-02 0.000E+00 0.500E-02 0.100E-01 0.150E-01 0.200E-01 0.250E-01 0.300E-01 0.350E-01 0.400E-01
SuspR.Kin.0.L.Arg0.Fac2SI = 1.0

SuspR.Kin.0.L.Arg1 = -.400E-01 -.350E-01 -.300E-01 -.250E-01 -.200E-01 -.150E-01 -.100E-01 -.500E-02 0.000E+00 0.500E-02 0.100E-01 0.150E-01 0.200E-01 0.250E-01 0.300E-01 0.350E-01 0.400E-01
SuspR.Kin.0.L.Arg1.Fac2SI = 1.0

SuspR.Kin.0.L.Data.Name = %i0 %i1 tx ty tz rx ry rz lSpring lDamp lBuf lStabi
SuspR.Kin.0.L.Data.Fac2SI = 1 1 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0

SuspR.Kin.0.L.Data:
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alejandro.moreno · 18 March 2022 10:28

What ending does your file has? I have set up the forum to allow .skc and .kin extensons. If this don’t work please change the extension to .dat or .txt

Ruben · 18 March 2022 10:39

It wont allow new users to upload files or attachments. But here is the ending of the skc data.

SuspR.Com.N = 1
SuspR.Com.0.Kind = CoeffConstFr1
SuspR.Com.0.ValidSide = left+right
SuspR.Com.0.InputSide = left+right

SuspR.Com.0.L.Data.Name = tx ty tz rx ry rz
SuspR.Com.0.L.Frc.Fac2SI = 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
SuspR.Com.0.L.Trq.Fac2SI = 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0

SuspR.Com.0.L.Frc.x = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.L.Frc.y = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
#SuspR.Com.0.L.Frc.z = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.L.Trq.x = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.L.Trq.y = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.L.Trq.z = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00

SuspR.Com.0.L.FrcOpp.x = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.L.FrcOpp.y = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
#SuspR.Com.0.L.FrcOpp.z 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.L.TrqOpp.x = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.L.TrqOpp.y = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.L.TrqOpp.z = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00

SuspR.Com.0.R.Data.Name = tx ty tz rx ry rz
SuspR.Com.0.R.Frc.Fac2SI = 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
SuspR.Com.0.R.Trq.Fac2SI = 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0

SuspR.Com.0.R.Frc.x = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.R.Frc.y = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
#SuspR.Com.0.R.Frc.z = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.R.Trq.x = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.R.Trq.y = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.R.Trq.z = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00

SuspR.Com.0.R.FrcOpp.x = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.R.FrcOpp.y = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
#SuspR.Com.0.R.FrcOpp.z 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.R.TrqOpp.x = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.R.TrqOpp.y = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00
SuspR.Com.0.R.TrqOpp.z = 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00 0.0000000E+00

alejandro.moreno · 18 March 2022 11:28

Please send your .kin file to formulacarmaker@ipg-automotive.com. On the subject write “Suspension KnC parameters Error: Not changing Monotonously”.

Ruben · 21 March 2022 14:21

Yes Its been done.
Thank you

alejandro.moreno · 24 March 2022 16:34

Unfortunately, I was not able to find out what the root cause of this issue. I suspect that it has to do with the Geometry data but could not confirm. A few things that I would like to point out:

It is recommended to offset the geometry coordinates with respect to the center of the corresponding axis on the x-y plane and at the ground level (z = 0). With this offset, the wheel center x-coordinate is 0 (like in the Double Wishbone template)
It is also recommended to define the data for the left wheels. This means that most of the y-coordinate values are negative for Axis System: Automotive Industry (positive y-coordinate values for DIN 70000).

grafik

There seems to be a mistake in your geometry drawing. The distance from the front wishbone attachment point to the rear wishbone attachment point seems disproportionally large.

grafik

mmccusker721 · 13 February 2024 21:10

Hello, I have the exact same problem as the others in the last 2 years. I can’t upload the kinemtiacs and skc files but have emailed it to the address of formulacarmaker@ipg-automotive.com and have the ticket number FCM-11635. I sent the support request a week ago and still have not heard anything. Is there anything you can do to help?
Thank you,
Mark McCusker